WorkPlato

Second Alcibiades

A short dialogue on the danger of praying for things you do not understand — and one that scholars generally judge Plato did not write.

by Plato22 passages held

  • English, a translation held here, and your language
Original title
Ἀλκιβιάδης Βʹ
First published
390 BCE(aged 38)
Original language
Ancient Greek

Report a rights issue

Overview

Almost no one now takes this brief dialogue for Plato's own. It survives inside the corpus because the ancient editors kept it there, in the tetralogies attributed to Thrasyllus, but its thin arguments, absence of humour and flat style have persuaded scholars that a later imitator wrote it, most likely in the third or second century BCE, generations after Plato's death. The subject is prayer. Socrates catches Alcibiades on his way to make an offering and warns him off: to ask the gods for something without knowing whether it would harm you is worse than not praying at all, since a man can pray his way into ruin. Better, until you have the wisdom to know what is genuinely good, to keep your requests few and plain, as the Spartans do. The underlying thought is a real Socratic one — that ignorance makes even piety dangerous — but the handling is a copyist's. It comes down whole with the corpus, valuable now chiefly as evidence of how Plato went on being imitated after he was gone.

Key concepts

Why do scholars judge the Second Alcibiades spurious?

Its thin arguments, absence of humour and flat style have convinced almost everyone that Plato did not write it. The likeliest author is a later imitator working in the third or second century BCE, generations after his death. It survives only because the ancient editors kept it in the corpus, inside the tetralogies attributed to Thrasyllus.

What genuinely Socratic idea does the dialogue rest on?

That ignorance makes even piety dangerous. The thought, that a man who prays for things without knowing whether they are truly good can pray his way into ruin, is a real Socratic one, tying right worship to self-knowledge. What marks the piece as an imitation is not this core idea but the clumsy, lifeless handling of it.

What are the tetralogies of Thrasyllus that preserved it?

An ancient arrangement, credited to the scholar Thrasyllus, that grouped Plato's works into sets of four. This ordering fixed which writings came down under Plato's name, including doubtful pieces like this one. The Second Alcibiades survived not on its merits but because it had a settled place in that inherited catalogue of the corpus.

What is the Second Alcibiades worth reading for now?

Chiefly as evidence of how Plato went on being imitated after he was gone. It shows a later writer of the school adopting his dramatic manner, Socrates intercepting a young man, a moral warning, a Spartan example, without his depth or wit. As a specimen of that afterlife, the dialogue documents a tradition rather than advancing one.

Themes of the book

What this book returns to, gathered into themes and ordered by how much of the text each one occupies.

Praying Without Knowing

To ask the gods for what you cannot judge to be good is worse than not praying at all, since a man may pray his own way into ruin.

Caught heading to an offering, Alcibiades is warned off: without the wisdom to know what is genuinely good, keep your requests few and plain, as the Spartans do. The core thought — that ignorance makes even piety dangerous — is a real Socratic one, but the thin arguments and flat style have persuaded nearly all scholars that a later imitator wrote it, generations after Plato's death. It survives in the corpus mainly as evidence of how Plato went on being imitated once he was gone.

  • ethics
  • wisdom
  • logic
  • prayer
  • piety
  • madness
  • expertise
  • ignorance
  • knowledge
  • good and evil
  • desire
  • political philosophy

Within this work

passages held
22
distinct concepts
40
by passages held, corpus-wide
#269

What this book thinks together

Every arc around the wheel is one concept in this book. A ribbon joins two the text reaches for together, and its width is how many of its passages hold both. Strongest: epistemology with ethics.
Concept co-occurrence, strongest first 8 concepts, joined by 7 pairings. 20 shared passages in all. 1 weaker pairing reaches beyond these concepts and is not drawn.
ConceptPaired conceptShared passages
epistemologyethics7
ethicswisdom3
classificationlogic2
epistemologywisdom2
ethicsexpertise2
ethicshuman nature2
ethicspolitical philosophy2

Works held

The author's work in order, this book marked in place. Your-language title first, the original beneath it where the two differ; side chips show which full texts are held.

  1. -399 Apology (Ἀπολογία Σωκράτους)

    Alone among Plato's works it is a courtroom monologue rather than a dialogue, and with the Euthyphro, Crito and Phaedo it forms the quartet dramatising Socrates' trial and death — the events that turned Plato toward philosophy.

    GRCELEN
  2. -399 Crito (Κρίτων)

    Set in the prison between the Apology's verdict and the Phaedo's execution, it is the shortest of the four last-days dialogues and the one that turns from Socrates' own fate to the citizen's duty toward the state.

    GRCEN
  3. -399 Euthyphro (Εὐθύφρων)

    One of the short definitional dialogues, in which Socrates hunts a single concept — here holiness — and comes away empty-handed; it opens the tetralogy that runs through the trial to the execution.

    GRCEN
  4. -399 Lesser Hippias (Ἱππίας ἐλάττων)

    A brief, aporetic early piece whose deliberately perverse conclusion has kept it a standing puzzle — and whose authenticity a few scholars still question, though Aristotle already treated it as Plato's.

    GRCEN
  5. -395 Ion (Ἴων)

    Among the shortest dialogues, and the first place Plato treats poetry as divine possession rather than craft — a theme he takes up again, far more harshly, in the Republic's quarrel with the poets.

    GRCEN
  6. -390 First Alcibiades (Ἀλκιβιάδης Αʹ)

    Its authenticity is disputed — unquestioned in antiquity, doubted since Schleiermacher — which is now the salient fact about it; the longer of the two Alcibiades dialogues attached to Plato's name.

    GRCEN
  7. -390 Laches (Λάχης)

    An early inquiry into a single virtue, pairing naturally with the Charmides on temperance; the question it leaves open — whether courage is really a form of knowledge — points ahead to the Protagoras.

    GRCEN
  8. -390 Second Alcibiades (Ἀλκιβιάδης Βʹ) you are here GRCEN
  9. -385 Meno (Μένων)

    A pivot in the corpus, standing between the aporetic early dialogues and the middle-period metaphysics: the theory of recollection and the knowledge/true-belief distinction first surface here, on the road to the Phaedo and Republic.

    GRCELEN
  10. -385 Protagoras (Πρωταγόρας)

    Plato's fullest dramatic contest between Socratic questioning and sophistic display, staged among the age's leading intellectuals; its question of teachable virtue passes straight into the Meno and Gorgias.

    GRCELEN
  11. -384 Euthydemus (Εὐθύδημος)

    A comic dialogue framed as Socrates' report to Crito, and the corpus's fullest exhibition of sophistical fallacy — much the same material Aristotle would later systematise in the Sophistical Refutations.

    GRCEN
  12. -380 Charmides (Χαρμίδης)

    The early companion to the Laches: where that dialogue fails to pin down courage, this one fails to pin down temperance — set just after Socrates' return from Potidaea, among relatives of Plato who became tyrants.

    GRCEN
  13. -380 Cratylus (Κρατύλος)

    Plato's only dialogue given wholly to language and the correctness of names; hard to date and unusual in the corpus, it stands at the head of a debate the philosophy of language has never closed.

    GRCELEN
  14. -380 Gorgias (Γοργίας)

    The bridge from the early ethical dialogues to the Republic: its confrontation with Callicles over whether injustice pays sets up the question the Republic devotes its whole length to answering.

    GRCEN
  15. -380 Lysis (Λύσις)

    One of the shortest early dialogues, and Plato's only sustained treatment of friendship as such; the questions it cannot answer are the ones Aristotle later organises in the Nicomachean Ethics.

    GRCEN
  16. -380 Menexenus (Μενέξενος)

    Almost entirely a set-piece funeral oration rather than a dialogue; its authenticity is backed by Aristotle's references, and it reads as Plato's deliberately ambiguous parody of Athenian patriotic rhetoric.

    GRCELEN
  17. -375 Phaedo (Φαίδων)

    The longest and most doctrinally ambitious of the last-days group, and the point where Socrates' conversations give way to Plato's own metaphysics: the theory of Forms stated outright, at the deathbed.

    GRCELEN
  18. -375 Republic (Πολιτεία)

    The centre of the corpus and the fullest statement of the middle-period philosophy — the Forms, the tripartite soul, the ideal city — gathering into one work the ethical and political threads of the Gorgias, Meno and Phaedo.

    GRCEN
  19. -375 Symposium (Συμπόσιον)

    A middle-period masterpiece built as a sequence of set speeches rather than a cross-examination; with the Phaedrus it is Plato's great treatment of erôs, and the source, through Ficino, of the phrase 'Platonic love.'

    GRCELEN
  20. -370 Parmenides (Παρμενίδης)

    The turning point where Plato subjects the middle-period Forms to their gravest criticism; its baffling second half became, for the Neoplatonists, the supreme metaphysical text in the whole corpus.

    GRCEN
  21. -370 Phaedrus (Φαῖδρος)

    Pairs with the Symposium as Plato's second great study of love, but reaches further — into rhetoric, dialectic and a famous closing critique of writing; unusually, it is set in the countryside outside Athens.

    GRCELEN
  22. -369 Theaetetus (Θεαίτητος)

    Plato's central inquiry into knowledge, and the first of a late trilogy continued in the Sophist and Statesman; famously it reaches no definition at all, ending in deliberate impasse.

    GRCELEN
  23. -360 Critias (Κριτίας)

    An unfinished late dialogue, broken off in mid-sentence and intended as the sequel to the Timaeus; its importance is almost entirely as the ancient origin of the Atlantis story.

    GRCEN
  24. -360 Sophist (Σοφιστής)

    The technical heart of the late trilogy, led by the Eleatic Stranger rather than Socrates; its solution to the puzzle of not-being is Plato's most sustained piece of pure logic and ontology.

    GRCEN
  25. -360 Statesman (Πολιτικός)

    The direct sequel to the Sophist, and the corpus's bridge from late metaphysics toward the legislation of the Laws; its claim that expert knowledge outranks written law reconsiders the Republic.

    GRCEN
  26. -360 Timaeus (Τίμαιος)

    Plato's one work of systematic cosmology, and by far his most influential in the Latin Middle Ages — for centuries the only dialogue available in the West, through Calcidius's partial translation.

    GRCEN
  27. -350 Eryxias (Ἐρυξίας)

    Classed among the spurious works and doubted since antiquity, this short dialogue on wealth is carried in the corpus under Plato's name but is very unlikely to be his.

    GRCEN
  28. -350 Laws (Νόμοι)

    Plato's longest and last dialogue, left unfinished at his death and the only one without Socrates; a practical, law-by-law counterpart to the ideal city of the Republic.

    GRCEN
  29. Philebus (Φίληβος)

    A late and technically demanding dialogue on whether pleasure or wisdom makes a life good; its exact place in the late group is unusually uncertain, and it is Plato's fullest ethics of pleasure.

    GRCELEN
Sign in or subscribe to discuss this work

— or open another of their works